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SSA card

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008klm
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SSA card

Postby 008klm » Wednesday June 28th, 2006 6:32 pm MDT

Thank you for the info presented in the radio show Eric Madsen did with John Bryant on Liberty Forum at 4 pm today, June 28, 2006!!!

Question: The SSA card I have has 2-sides, on the front side is offset printed 'SOCIAL SECURITY' then 'ACCOUNT NUMBER' under, both of which lines are divided by the seal of the Department of HEW. Under that is printed the SSN and under that are the words 'HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED FOR'. Below that is the name first name, middle initial, and last name all typed in upper and lower case. Below that is offset printed the word 'SIGNATURE', and adjacent to that is my hand written signature. At the bottom of the front side are printed the words 'FOR SOCIAL SECURITY AND TAX PURPOSES - NOT FOR IDENTIFICATION'.

On the back of the card along the left edge are printed the following: 'Form OA-702. Rev. (9-61)'. Then, adjacent to that are printed the following (parallel to the top edge of the card):
'Keep this card. Sign it immediately. Show it to your employer. Mention the number in all letters about your account. If you lose this card apply for a duplicate, not a new number.
'Once a year you can get a statement of wages credited to your account. Get a form for this purpose from any Social Security Administration District Office.
'If you change your name, notify the nearest Social Security Administration District Office immediately.
'TELL YOUR FAMILY TO NOTIFY THE NEAREST SOCIAL SECURITY OFFICE IN THE EVENT OF YOUR DEATH. IT IS ADVISABLE TO GET IN TOUCH WITH A SOCIAL SECURITY OFFICE WHEN YOU REACH RETIREMENT AGE OR IF YOU BECOME SEVERELY DISABLED.
At the bottom of the second side are the words 'DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, EDUCATION, AND WELFARE' and below that are the words 'SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION'.

I don't see anywhere where this card says it is the property of the SSA, that I have to return it to anyone if requested, etc.

PS: Thanks again for the insightful radio program, wish it lasted longer.

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SSA card

Postby Geibes » Thursday June 29th, 2006 8:31 am MDT

I personally don't have a Social Security Card (SSC) but I loan my consciousness and physical capacity to the Trustee of a trust that Holds a SSC for its beneficiary. That Trustee seems to remember that the card that the SSC was attached to when it arrived in the mail was where it said it must be returned when requested. I haven't looked in a while but it might also be written in the actual law so you may want to check there as well.
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Postby Thunder » Thursday June 29th, 2006 10:01 am MDT

The card I have also bears the account number of a Social Security Trust Account, if it were mine, I could just tear it up and do with it as I please, which most definitely is not the case. You are even appraised of its' value, by being told to keep it in a safe place.
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SSA card

Postby Geibes » Thursday June 29th, 2006 1:18 pm MDT

thunder wrote:The card I have...
bold added by me

what card, thunder? :wink:
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Postby Thunder » Thursday June 29th, 2006 4:04 pm MDT

The card I hold in trust as the trustee of the trust account.
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Re: SSA card

Postby Admin » Friday June 30th, 2006 11:03 am MDT

:h: 008klm:
You are welcome! We were pleased to do the show. We are doing another one this Sunday at the same time. We spoke with the commentator and he is looking forward to doing other shows as well.

As to the nature of the relationship with the Social Security Administration generated relationship, it is disclosed in their records, the code and in the materials they promote with the card. Some cards do not show the limitation that the card does not belong to you on them, but some do, and there is no difference in the relationship they offer; and, the documents that come with the card and the code make it clear—the card does not belong to you.

The bottom line: if you are a person that believes in the Torah or the Bible and in the admonitions provided therein we would point you to 2 Samuel 24:10 where it shows the punishment the Children of Israel suffered because they suffered themselves to be numbered for a tax to support Israel’s war expenses. The punishment was 70,000 of them were killed by a plague, which continued until David followed the Lord’s admonition (through Gad the prophet) to build an alter, and there David begged the Lord to remove the plague from the people and instead focus the responsibility for breaking God’s law by numbering the people on him and his father’s house because he was the one that instituted the numbering of the people.

So if that example was not clear enough, the bottom line is: God’s law requires His people are not to be numbered — thus, we understand that to mean that we are not to be numbered and if Corp. U.S. wants to offer an numbering plan wherein the people are to be given a number we will not take it and the Constitution allows no such power to government. The power of granted in the Constitution for counting the people in a census does not give the government the authority to number them as chattel property. The Constitution clearly retains and recognizes the sovereign nature of the people and their control over the government; it grants no authority to the government to control the people. Therefore, the Social Security card does not make you their chattel property rather the card is their chattel property and they entrust it with you for the purposes described in the Social Security Act of 1935, and that which follows.

We hope this information is helpful to you.
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Contracts, Trusts and the Corporation Soul — revisited.

Postby Admin » Friday June 30th, 2006 12:00 pm MDT

:h: Thunder:
Regarding
thunder wrote:The card I hold in trust as the trustee of the trust account.
Though we appreciate that interpretation of the former comment, we are reminded: “Whenever the trustee acts it is the Trust that is acting.” Thus we expect Geibes question goes more to the point that would suggest that Trusts usually speak using the same personal pronoun as queens and Kings—“the royal we”—which is the first person singular “we”. We further expect Geibes was referencing the fact that in reality (though people often error by speaking as if they were the capacity) the capacity Trustee is simply that — a capacity created in contract, thus if you lend your consciousness and physical capacity to such a capacity it is not you serving in that capacity, rather it is the Trust acting in accord with the terms of the contract. This clarification is why we (at Team Law) spend so much time harping on the importance of understanding capacity and acting within such capacities when appropriate. Thus, more correctly, if you have loaned your consciousness and physical capacity to a Trust for use in its Trustee capacity, it is the Trust that is controlling that capacity not you. Therefore, the statement:
thunder wrote:The card I hold in trust as the trustee of the trust account.
Is incorrect for at least two reasons:
  1. The Trust is an actual entity of its own contractually created nature and it is the party that holds its beneficiary’s equitable assets in trust; therefore, you are not it and if you lend your consciousness and physical capacity to the Trust it is the Trust that accordingly uses your consciousness and physical capacity in its Trustee capacity, not you. Thus, you cannot hold the card in trust unless you are the trust and your statement (if accepted as accurate) implies that you have a general partnership with the Trust.
  2. your quoted statement alleges you are the trustee holding something in trust for a “trust account”, which presupposes the existence of some “trust account”, which implies yet another trust, as ye not disclosed. We are not aware of any such “trust account” in any relation to the comment made originally in this topical thread by 008klm. Thus, we must assume you are making a common mistake in addressing the “card” personally as in your original comment in this topical thread:
    thunder wrote:The card I have also bears the account number of a Social Security Trust Account, if it were mine, I could just tear it up and do with it as I please, which most definitely is not the case. You are even appraised of its' value, by being told to keep it in a safe place.
    Though the comment’s general point is well made, the language of the comment implies you have the card in question, which should instead be in the possession of the Trust; not held by you for the “trust account”, rather held in trust by the Trust for its beneficiary. That comment also refers to a “Social Security Trust Account”; and, the only such account we are aware of is the Social Security Administration’s own Social Security General Trust Fund, which the Supreme Court has identified as the general funds of the United States Government (Corp. U.S.). Within SSA records they track funds that come from the various entities they create but according to the court record they do not hold accounts open for those entities. SSA admits there are no contractual relationships regarding the funds contributed from such entities in any relation to any retirement or insurance program and no such accounts are held for any beneficiary of the Social Security Administration’s programs. Thus we are not aware of the existence of any such “Social Security Trust Account” as was related in your comment. We do recognize that SSA uses terms like Retirement, Insurance, and Account related to what they do but on closer scrutiny of such usage the courts have well ruled there is no such Retirement program, Insurance program or accounts related to the same.
Thus on final review, we note again, “When a Trustee acts it is the Trust that is acting”, not the Trustee and certainly not the man lending consciousness and physical capacity to the Trust. The relationship is just like that of a car rental; if someone rents a car the lender loans the car to the borrower and the borrower contractually accepts full responsibility for the car. The lender is no longer responsible for the car in accord with the terms of the lending contract. Thus if the car is involved in an accident it is not the lender that is responsible for the damages it is the borrower. The Trust is the borrower. Instead of a car the Trust borrows the lenders consciousness and physical capacity. Whatever the Trust does with the borrowed consciousness and physical capacity the Trust is responsible for, not the lender. The protection of such a function is called corporate immunity and it is well covered in the Contracts, Trusts and the Corporation Sole article on this Open Forum.

We hope this information is helpful to you.
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Postby Thunder » Friday June 30th, 2006 12:24 pm MDT

I appreciate and understand clearly the trust/trustee relationship. I was going to come back last night and clarify what I had typed, for I knew what I typed didnot really make sense, but got involved in a science special. I knew what I meant, and what I meant to type was correct. When push comes to shove, this old country boy gets the wording correct. I apologize for not typing it correctly the first time and hope I didn't confuse anyone. I thoroughly enjoy this forum. Thank you!!!!
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No apology necessary.

Postby Admin » Friday June 30th, 2006 1:07 pm MDT

:h: Thunder:
Actually you need no defense of the error. We expect such reviews are helpful to one and all.

We took your responses as a kismet opportunity to give our Open Forum visitors the experience of seeing the kind of detail Team Law beneficiaries usually enjoy when they make such errors in presentment. The depth of our editorial review was typical of our service to our beneficiaries and is not often seen on our Open Forum. Team Law beneficiaries regularly get that kind of help and clarification and we are sticklers that they learn to communicate properly so their words are properly understood because they learn to say what they mean. Thus we are quite thankful for your error and welcomed the opportunity to help.

In fact, from our past communications, we felt fairly certain Thunder did understand the matter. Still, we do not rest on such assumptions and decided, rather than calling Thunder to find out what happened and get the matter corrected, our editorial review of Thunder’s two comments should be of value to one and all.
Thank you, Thunder, for you gracious comments! Keep up the good work.

We hope this information is helpful to you.
Tell everybody about Team Law! :t^:
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