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Postby Ragnarok » Monday September 5th, 2005 5:55 pm MDT

Greetings all,
I am not a Team Law beneficiary but have been following Team Law's online progress off and on for years. Tons of information here and I am glad to see the site's progress, and especially the inclusion of a forum - I personally think that networking is a major key in making progress in this kind of endeavor. "If we don't all hang together...", etc.

I just can't bring myself to jump in with both feet yet - because I have yet to see any testmonials of success at getting (federal/state/county/agencies) government to "leave my land alone!" using the land patents (maybe I just have not read enough in the forums yet). I know someone who began the process of enforcing their land patent and has just about thrown in the towel. The (fed/state/county/agencies) governments seemingly have endless funds, ignorance, malice, ways and means, to deplete the limited resources of those who only want to be left alone in peace and true liberty.

I understand and appreciate that most who truly know what liberty means, tend to be independent, skeptical and circumspect in their dealings. Who out there has had success? I am not asking you how you did it, but if it worked, and how well. Will you share your tale?

Sincerely, Ragnarok

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Re: Testimonials?

Postby Admin » Tuesday September 6th, 2005 3:23 am MDT

:h: Ragnarok,
Thanks for the praise of our work. Such praise is always appreciated.
It seems like your primary interest in Team Law is related to your interest in securing your land rights. You say:
Ragnarok wrote:…I’ve been following Team Law’s online progress off and on for years. …I just can’t bring myself to jump in with both feet yet — because I have yet to see any testimonials of success at getting (federal/state/county/agencies) government to "leave my land alone!" using the land patents (maybe I just have not read enough in the forums yet). (spelling corrected)
But, Team Law is not about that! We are a free lifelong educational service that helps people educate themselves in law, history and language such that they become self sufficient in law. Thus, the nature of testimonials you might expect from Team Law beneficiaries would be they found working with us helped them learn how to use law.

We are in this for the very survival of our country and our Constitutional Republic. The only way we will survive is if the people awaken from their sleep, learn the law and apply it to restore our original jurisdiction government. Though, securing land patent secured rights is elemental to that process, so is learning the true nature of your relationships with Corp. U.S. and the Corp. States and acting accordingly to control such entities.

If you are looking for process specific third party testimonials from Team Law beneficiaries you will not likely ever find them here, because that is not what we do. You will find the occasional gracious thankful comments from our forum members, which we appreciate.

We demonstrate evidence in support of our work by pointing people directly to the actual facts and law then let those speak for themselves (as they do in court). To address the specific subject matter you seem to be looking for, we published our Land Patent Open Forum lead topic located at the following link: Land 101.

The primary purpose for publishing that mini course is, to eliminate most of the myths people may have learned from the Patriot Mythology world regarding land patents and their effect. The simple facts regarding the value of land patents, their use and their force has nothing to do with anyone’s experiences or references; it has only to do with the facts in law, which are written on the documents themselves and on the chain of documents from the Land Patent to the present. The documents speak for themselves. That is why all cases properly brought in the history of this country challenging such records are thwarted. That means, in the history of our country, we are aware of no case ever successfully brought against a land patent secured right. There are many cases supporting land patents and their supremacy law nature in preserving land and property rights. These facts are easily verifiable for anyone interested in doing so. Therefore, even if Team Law was involved in such specifics as the testimonials you inquired after, the necessity for such a thing seems superfluous—the courts have taken care of that with rulings universally in favor of the land patent.

We appreciate the fact that people often do not want to pay attention to the successes of the principle party ramroding something to fruition; still our Trustee’s story tells every bit of what you are asking about. The matter that caused him to discover land patents to begin with, was a matter that had all of the elements you asked about and his story is found throughout Team Law’s publications. He did save land and preserve it because of his work with land patents and his experience in the courts. He owns land that is not subject to taxation of any kind. (In fact, we cannot imagine Land ever being subject to a tax.) We have helped others learn how to do the same; however, most people that have had such successes also treasure their privacy and are not willing to disclose such matters. They won their liberty by learning how and standing for it. They have no current battles to fight on such matters and they do not want scrutiny into their private lives. We don’t blame them. We expect that from all beneficiaries. Such privacy has been a cornerstone of Team Law’s service from the beginning. It is the very reason this Open Forum is operated with anonymous usernames. Privacy is important! Still their testimonials would not aid what we do because we do not directly teach you, rather we help you learn how to learn the law for yourself.

From the beginning Team Law has not promoted testimonials for good reason. Our nation is in the condition it is in today because too many people are waiting for somebody else to do what is necessary to save it. Generally, as a result of testimonials (even though no law requires it), people ignorantly run off to secure Social Security numbers. The evidence shows, everything they acquire or develop through the use of the name/number on the Social Security Card belongs to (and is held in trust by them for) Corp. U.S. (see Myth 22). One of the most devastating things we have seen in the so called Patriot Movement is people ignorantly following after marketed rumors of someone else’s alleged success.
Ragnarok wrote:I know someone who began the process of enforcing their land patent and has just about thrown in the towel.
But, who were they working with, certainly not Team Law. What were they trying to do with the land patent—avoid obligations they privately contracted to? Land patents won’t interfere with their right to contract, nor is it moral or proper to avoid obligations in that manner. Yet it seems like you are listening to that person’s limited experience rather than addressing the matter as it stands in law and in the facts; we find that is the problem in almost every case where people have such difficulties.

The problems inherent with testimonials in general are:
    You don’t know if these are:
  • the only results;
  • the only good results out of ten thousand failures;
  • made up results;
  • simply paid to perform participants in a scam.
When you act on referrals, you have to trust the referrer. When you act on facts and law, you don’t have to trust anyone other than your own work in concert with the law. That is why we do not promote testimonials as references; rather, we help people learn how to go directly to the law and the historical facts to understand the situation for themselves and to implement the law respectively.

The problem with acting on testimonials as references is, they are based on what someone else allegedly knows or was able to do and not on your own knowledge or experience. That’s what the current marketers of patriot mythology like: the Strawman, U.C.C. 1 filings, sight drafts, Redemption and Expatriation say. They ignore the fact that their specific spurious theories do not meet the tests of logic or law so they revert to testimonials and allege: “X number of people have done this and: caused a judge to remove judgments; removed tax liens; stayed out of jail, etc.” Our response to such references is our Patriot Mythology page on our website.

The feds have even been known to use agent provocateurs to set up mythological pursuits for the purpose of guiding patriots into their own impotent destruction. They orchestrate a system, generate evidence for their planned causes of action and then, when they have sufficient parties to catch in their snare, they close the trap. The Roy Swasinger program was one of those. 300,000 people were caught in that snare. The feds jailed most of the leaders for fraud (Roy was amongst those jailed, but though he was supposed to be in jail he was allegedly spotted several times around the country out of the jail and if you made an appointment to visit him he was there (but only by appointment)). A husband and wife from Colorado was caught in that snare and were convicted and sentenced to 10-15 years; while on bail between conviction and sentencing they took flight up to the Montana Freemen’s “Freedom Township” complex, which was one of the best examples of what we are demonstrating here. Leroy Schweitzer (their leader) used the pseudonym, “Montana Freemen” to spread his theories on sight drafts and Treasury Warrants to spread thousands of such instruments all over the country. When their program was brought to our attention, we were shown a $16,000,000.00 Warrant drawn on the Treasury of the United States of America (which has been vacant since 1912 and nonexistent since 1920); knowing the Treasury was vacant (and nonexistent) we immediately recognized the instrument was void on its face. We told the person showing us the instrument that it was a fraud and if it was passed through the banking system it was good for from 5 to 15 years, or possibly life, imprisonment (depending on the charges). They argued with us and contacted Leroy, to support his position; Leroy responded by sending us some 3,000 plus copies of such instruments, each with its own documented success story of paying off houses and getting cash back, paying off tax debts and getting cash back and paying off court judgments and getting cash back. We responded, “That notwithstanding, the instrument on its face proves criminal fraud.” Leroy fell back to the final position in his argument: “We are only doing what the FED has been doing for years.” We said, “Two wrongs don’t make a right and what you are doing is criminal—marketing it as you are is unconscionable.” We predicted the feds would eventually prosecute and meanwhile they will simply bide their time collecting evidence for prosecution. Regardless of how many people had how many evidences there is no statute of limitation on fraud until it is discovered then the feds would have 18 months to bring them to trial. With the evidence they sent us alone, these people would go away for life (if convicted). About a year later, the feds came calling (broadcast on TV all over nation), and they all went to jail —thousands of patriotic folks from all over the country literally went to jail with them because they followed such well documented lies presented as testimonial references; some of those otherwise good people will never leave those prisons except by death.

Though we understand why a person might want specific examples of others being successful, we stand on the fact that their results do not predetermine your experience. You must learn, apply your learning, understand it and prove it for yourself; only then will you be successful in getting effective results—and that only if you learn the law so that you can. Our opinion is, our nation is in the condition it is in today because too many people are waiting for somebody else to do what is necessary to save it. People too often want to rely on somebody else’s success before they are even willing to learn the truth and succeed on their own. They give the excuse that they do not want to be the guinea pig. The fact is the only way they could possibly be guinea pigs is if they were relying on the testimonial of somebody else’s method instead of on the law, themselves and the King of Kings.

We have a 100% track record for over ten years. That is not because we are better than anybody else is. It is because we follow the admonition of the King of Kings: ‘Be ye not tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine.’ Prove all things —‘By the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.’ If my people will ‘Obey the Law and remain not of this world…then shall they receive their inheritance…if not…they have no promise’ (paraphrased from several scriptures).

It is right and proper to obey, honor and sustain the law yet how can anyone obey, or honor, or sustain the law if they do not know what the law is, what its history is or what their relation is to it? They cannot. When we discover our lack of knowledge, we must repent, learn the truth and then do what is right. That is what Team Law is all about; we help people learn the truth about law, history and their relationships so they can become self-sufficient in law and in their relationships. We will keep doing that until we, as a people, save our Constitution and our Country from hanging by a thread. We will not stop until the job is done.

Forgive us if this seems a bit preachy, it is simply necessary—for things to change we must all repent and get back to following the Creator and His way, which requires us to know the Law and our history and to stand for what is right. Therefore, when you find our work is worthy of support, support it.

When you desire a beneficiary relationship with Team Law you may do all you can to influence others to support your cause, nominate you as a Team Law beneficiary and privately become your own success story. By the same token, you are right when you suggest it takes teamwork, so when you become a Team Law beneficiary you should be helping others to become Team Law beneficiaries by referring people to Team Law and making supportive donations and nominating new beneficiaries. Together we can unite our nation. Team Law beneficiaries learn the law and how to preserve our country and its Constitutional Republic. Time is of the essence in this matter because the forces currently holding our Constitution and our country hanging by a thread would simply cut that thread and land you in abject Communism, where Corp. U.S. owns everything and controls all business relations (see Myth 22). They are close to that already; yet we still have a chance of winning if you and everyone that reads this message will simply support Team Law—tell at least one person a day about Team Law. If that alone is done, we could have our nation back within four months. It won’t happen if you don’t do something to support the effort.

You referenced the power and funding of the agencies of Corp. U.S. and the Corp. State; we expanded on that thought by alluding to the worst-case scenario, their destroying the economy and perverting this nation into another third world communistic regime; so what do you have to loose? Everything! If the people do not get together, learn the law and legally and lawfully restore our original jurisdiction government soon — all will be lost.

    The Bottom Line:
    • Team Law is the only organization we are aware of in the country that has shown a valid plan for restoring our original jurisdiction government.
    • Team Law is the only free self-help resource we are aware of that specializes in privately helping people become self-sufficient in law by properly educating themselves.
    • Team Law is the only resource we know of that has successfully assisted anyone in reseating governors in original jurisdiction State governments.
    • Our Trustee actually openly ran for office, was elected and served for four years as the original jurisdiction governor of Colorado State, which service was confirmed in the National Security Counsel, Congress and in both the State of Colorado courts and in the 10th District Federal court.
    • The person that lends our Trustee consciousness and physical capacity also currently (7/29/07) continues to lead the way by serving as the first Senator to serve in the country’s original jurisdiction Congress since 1920.
So what have you got to gain by supporting Team Law? Everything! Most of all, for now, you gain hope in restoring our Country and saving our Constitutional Republic. That hope will not come by sitting on the fence. That hope and the fruition of that dream will not come without your support.

We hope this information is helpful to you.
Tell everybody about Team Law! Start today by telling someone where they can find us. :t^:<hr>The following was coppied from the Beneficiary Forum to aid people in understanding our opinion on testimonials. It is inserted here because it well explains the subject matter.
JourneyHome wrote:Admin,
You have said in the past that you do not like testimonials, but do not mind constructive criticism nor a 'that-a-boy' when appropriate. My opinion is that the short video was a great tool. I hope you might find some more uses for it in the future. I give it a two thumbs up. :ro

:h: JourneyHome:
You are correct, everyone appreciates a pat on the back. Though some people see that the same as a testimonial, that is not what we refer to when we downplay testimonials.

The testimonials we contest are those that focus on some particular practice people want to have to make a decision whether or not to get involved with something. Such testimonials are a bogus shortcut to doing your own necessary work of discovery. All too often people look for such testimonials as if they can substantiate their decisions to get involved, which makes no sense.

When you consider the only two things Team Law does are:
  1. We help people educate themselves in law, history and the language of the same; and,
  2. We support the process of reseating our original jurisdiction government;
The only thing that would make sense for testimonials regarding what we do would be:
  1. “Educating yourself is better than remaining ignorant”; which is a no brainer; and,
  2. “Learning the law and how our actual government works so that you can get involved in its elections to make sure that it remains existent and can help preserve our lives, rights, liberty and property would be a good thing”; which is already an obvious necessity for people living in a society and as such is both a no brainer and a moot point, because you can discuss the matter till hell freezes over and the discussion will not change the necessity.
That is exactly why we are repulsed by people that want testimonials regarding Team Law, they simply do not fit.

Our other problem with testimonials is people do blindly (if not foolishly) follow them without first discovering the law or requirements regarding the same. For example, consider some of the testimonials people have blindly followed, believing in their promoters:
  1. After starting an organization he called, “We the People” in 1993, Roy Schwasinger, promoted a program for people to lay claim against Corp. U.S. for millions of dollars. Thousands of people flocked to the program paying $300.00 each to Schwasinger’s organization to file the claim. Thousands of people that believed in Schwasinger would give their testimonials of support in their belief in such claims.
  2. LeRoy Schweitzer (a student of Schwasinger’s) organized his own organization they called, “Montana Freemen” and began his own brand of claim against Corp. U.S. where he drafted bogus so called “warrants” against the Treasury of the United States of America. Again, people followed along in droves. We called Schweitzer’s warrants “bogus” and their process of passing them “interstate bank fraud”. To convince us he was right Schweitzer sent copies of 3,000 testimonials with copies of the bank records and so-called warrants that inspired them (where people actually used the to pay for: cars, homes, credit card debts and even state and federal taxes). We did not change our opinion due to the testimonials—because the Treasury the so-called warrants were drawn on has not existed since the 1920s. Several months later Schweitzer was imprisoned along with many of those very people that had made those testimonials.
  3. Irwin Schiff is the author of several books (testimonials) that contest the validity of the IRS collected taxation system; he says taxpayers should file a “zero return”, etc. Though Irwin has several times been convicted and imprisoned for his beliefs, he continues to follow his conviction in them and is currently serving time for his most recent conviction; yet people still follow him down that same path because of his published informative books and others testimonials;
  4. The same goes for those that follow other tax protestors of lesser fame like Lynn Merideth, Larken Rose, and Bob Schultz just to list a few. The numbers of testimonials will not change the error in their understanding or in the error of those that blindly follow them or their arguments.
  5. Even more pernicious are the well believed testimonials from “official sources”, which testimonials are perceived by others as legal requirements for things like:
    1. Social Security numbers; even though there is no law that requiring anyone to apply for the same; The law actually forbids the Social Security number from being required for any purpose other than those required for by the Social Security Administration for its administration of its system;
      • Yet Homeland Security missives (mere testimonials) to banks are interpreted by banks as a requirement for using the Social Security number to open a bank account; and,
      • We are told some people actually, though unreasonably, believe the SSN is their very own Taxpayer Identification Number, even though there is nothing in the law supporting that belief (see Myth 22). As “taxpayers” those people then spread their beliefs with their testimonials to even more people who in turn continue the myth; The myth that alleges the people are numbered by Social Security Administration not only fails to stand the factual test of history and law, it violates God’s law and has the potential of destroying our Constitutional Republic by providing powers our government does not have to the contractual bondage people believing in that myth are controlled by.
    2. Driver's licenses are promoted by the Corp. States as if they are required of “every person”; however, the code itself limits its applicability to the controls of the Constitution of the United States of America and the laws of the State. Yet, the Enabling Acts of the states forbid the States from passing laws repugnant to the principles of the Constitution of the United States of America (some include a limitation from the principles of the Declaration of Independence as well); the number one principle of those documents is Liberty, which is defined as, ‘The Right to take your Property and come and go as you please without interference from government’. So why do people believe such driver's licenses are necessary? It is because of testimonials from people that do not know the law. Such testimonials are passed repeatedly from one person to another until virtually everyone believes in the unfounded testimonials as if it really represented the law (where no such law exists that could possible limit the people).
Some people call praise, like you presented above, a testimonial; however, that is not what we are relating to when we protest people following after testimonials. We protest people ignorantly following testimonials regarding specific processes that are actually controlled by their own rights and the law, when those very people are ignorant of the law, its history and or their rights. Those people first fall prey to such testimonials, then they become part of the problem by repeating such testimonials, all while their rights are ignorantly exchanged for bondage.

It seems hardly reasonable for anyone to want such procedure based testimonials from Team Law when you consider the fact that Team Law is only involved in helping people learn how to restore our original jurisdiction government and helping people properly educate themselves in law, its (and our) history and in the language necessary to use and understand the same.

Praise, thanks giving, kudos, a pat on the back for a job well done and the like are always well received and appreciated. People looking at Team Law for the first time even see such input as support of the fact that Team Law is worthy of their support. That is also welcome.

On the matter of such support as it may relate to people getting involved with Team Law, the protested type of testimonials are no reason for people to ever be involved with anything, financially or otherwise. The whole purpose of Team Law contests acting without first understanding, which runs contrary to the whole concept for process based testimonials.

People support Team Law for what we have already done, not for what we might do for them in the future. Accordingly, when people make donations, they are granted the privilege of nominating anyone other than themselves for a Team Law Beneficiary Endowment. Certainly, that is the best way for anyone to spread the word about Team Law, nominate them for a Team Law Beneficiary Endowment. It is also the highest praise for a job well done—making donations to support our work.

We always welcome all three types of support, whether it comes in the form of: funding, thanks/praise or referrals—feel free to keep it up on all three fronts whenever possible—without such support, what Team Law does would be impossible.

We hope this information is helpful to you.
Tell everybody about Team Law! :t^:
Last edited by Admin on Thursday August 16th, 2007 2:59 pm MDT, edited 8 times in total.
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Postby Zeal » Sunday October 2nd, 2005 10:44 am MDT

I am a team law beneficiary and have nothing but great things to say. I was able to secure my land patent on the land I previously owned. Best thing you can do is do your own research and try to prove 'em wrong. If you become a beneficiary you will speed up your learning curve dramatically. Their education is priceless.

The only other words of wisdom I have are to make sure you come to them prior to getting wrapped up in all the Patriot lies that are out there. You shouldn't have to do mental gymnastics to understand what is going on out there. Everything that happened to our nation is in the public record - you just have to get off your butt, turn off the tv and read it.

Have a great day! Steve

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Testimonials or witnesses?

Postby Hugh » Friday December 9th, 2005 4:54 pm MST

Thank you for the detailed response. I can only agree with what you have expressed. After a period of exposure to the "truth" in a matter, "faith" will develop as a natural consequence.

A past history of bad experiences with the "system" brought on by prior "error" may cause an occasional "fear" or "doubt" to rise to the surface, but hopefully, only as a transitory event.

It is very good to hear someone speak with the confidence of knowing that following the truth in the law will bring about a desired result.

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