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Can a Land Patent be issued with existing Mortgage

The mystery of Land Patents unveiled.

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Jmletennier
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Can a Land Patent be issued with existing Mortgage

Postby Jmletennier » Monday April 16th, 2012 10:53 am MDT

I am preapring to settle with my Bank on the value of the remaining debt. Can a Land Patent be gotten if there is a Mortgage?

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Re: Can a Land Patent be issued with existing Mortgage

Postby Admin » Monday April 16th, 2012 12:49 pm MDT

:h: Jmletennier:
The nature of your question indicates you must be new to our Open Forum system—so, Welcome!
We imagined you are new because the Forum Rules require users first read the forum to discover whether their questions have already been answered; and, we believe the lead topic on this Land Patent Forum—Land 101 provides several elements that resolve your inquiry.

However, we also recognize the possibility that you may have read that article and missed the answers to your question; thus, we hope this response will resolve the matter.

The two elemental issues that should have resolved your inquiry are:
  1. The Land Patent is the Title to the Land; and,
  2. in several places the article provided the answer to the following question:
      “Does the Land Patent have anything to do with a mortgage?
        And, the answer is—‘No.’
        That also means that whether or not you have or have ever had a mortgage related to your property ownership, such a mortgage has no relation to your having received that grant or assignment secured by the Land Patent.”
Thus, due to the first element: because the land patent is the Title to the land, if you could not so secure a fee simple Title to the property appurtenant to the land in question it might actually be quite difficult to get a mortgage in the first instance; and, due to the second element, given that the land patent has nothing to do with mortgages, that too should have provided you the answer to your inquiry.

Respectively, we hope this information is helpful to you.
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Re: Can a Land Patent be issued with existing Mortgage

Postby Jmletennier » Friday April 20th, 2012 8:25 am MDT

I am following th instructions another person who posted here reagarding NYS,, but in reserching: i found this can anyone elaborate?

    Regarding Land Patents:
    Back in 1983 and 1984, Carol Landi popularized an argument that the land patent was the highest and best form of title and that by updating the patent in your own name, you could defeat any mortgages. This contention violated many principles of real property law and when Carol started trying to get patents for most of the land in California brought up into her own name, she went to jail. Others who have raised this argument lost the issue.
    1. Landi v. Phelps, 740 F.2d 710 (9th Cir. 1984)
    2. Sui v. Landi, 209 Cal.Rptr. 449 (Cal.App. 1 Dist. 1985)
    3. Hilgeford v. People's Bank, 607 F.Supp. 536 (N.D.Ind. 1985)
    4. Nixon v. Individual Head of St. Joseph Mtg. Co., 612 F.Supp. 253 (N.D. Ind. 1985)
    5. Nixon v. Phillipoff, 615 F.Supp. 890 (N.D. Ind. 1985)
    6. Wisconsin v. Glick, 782 F.2d 670 (7th Cir. 1986)
    7. Britt v. Federal Land Bank Ass'n. of St. Louis, 505 N.E.2d 387 (Ill. App. 1987)
    8. Charles F. Curry Co. v. Goodman, 737 P.2d 963 (Okl.App. 1987)
    9. Federal Land Bank of Spokane v. Redwine, 755 P.2d 822 (Wash.App. 1988).
any thouhgt much appreciated..
tx JM

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Re: Can a Land Patent be issued with existing Mortgage

Postby Admin » Friday April 20th, 2012 11:59 am MDT

:h: Jmletennier:
From time to time people raise such issues asking us to review what others have done; however, that is not our purpose here. Respectively, we pointed you towards our Land 101 article; wherein you would have learned things like:
  1. A “Land Patent is a Land Grant made Patent.
  2. The point of the word “patent” when used in the term “land patent” is that it seals the respective Land Grant such that with that seal the Land Grant cannot be changed (in any way).
  3. The Land Patent is the Title to the Land.
  4. The Land Patent stands as supremacy law (treaty law).
  5. The chain of Title (which includes all of the transfer documents from the patent to the present) secures the chain of assignment (defined on a land patent) from the landowner named on the land patent to the current landowners.
  6. Land Patents have nothing to do with mortgages.
  7. Etcetera.
Thus, when people (like those referenced in your inquiry) try to use the land patent for purposes other than as the actual Title to the land at the base of a Chain of Title, they risk the effects of their actions; whether they be criminal or fraud. So it is with those that try to lay claim to land they have no right to.

Respectively, you provided a list of cases that (if you read them) each tell you why the parties within the same failed or prevailed. Accordingly, we suggest that you do that (read the cases) to gain an understanding of what those cases provide. That notwithstanding, no case in the history of this country ever overturned the effect of a lawfully acquired land patent. Thus, regardless of what anyone may imagine to the contrary, the courts have consistently held that land patents remain as “Title to Land”. All anyone has to do to know the truth of that fact is stop wasting time surfing the internet to find out what third parties are marketing about the topic and start actually studying the law itself, firsthand, from its source; when you do, you will begin actually learning the law, its history and its language. That process will help you learn how to learn the law.

Of course, Team Law can help because that is what we do; we help people learn how to learn the law firsthand from its source. When you are ready to do that, we welcome your support.

We hope this information is helpful to you.
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Team Law,

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and of our spouses, our children, and our peace.
"


As with all Forum posts, comments made by Admin are:
copyrighted—all rights reserved; and, provided here for educational purposes only.

Jmletennier
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Joined: Monday April 9th, 2012 1:55 pm MDT

Re: Can a Land Patent be issued with existing Mortgage

Postby Jmletennier » Friday April 20th, 2012 12:15 pm MDT

Thank you for the clarification: but If read correctly, the Land Patent is no protection against a Mortgage.. if a mortgage already exists in FEE simple or allodial title from the State? we have a Cetified DEED & SURVEY MAP

We have an interesting case with regards to our servicer. and we will win anyway based on Accounting fraud and possibly SEC fraud. We are actually attacking them, we are not waiting for a foreclosure, and I guess I was atempting to backup my claim with a LAND Patent..

and it appears an attempt at gaining a land patent on property that has a mortgage is punishable as well

tx JM

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Re: Can a Land Patent be issued with existing Mortgage

Postby Admin » Saturday April 21st, 2012 3:44 pm MDT

:h: Jmletennier:
No “buts”.
That’s reading (imagining) a bit too much between the lines and not doing enough reading of the sources we referenced.

Again, if land is secured by a land patent, that Land Patent is a historical document; meaning, it already exists. Therefore, when a landowner tracks the Chain of Title from the deed [through which the landowner acquired the land] back to the land patent, that Land Patent is the Title to that land; and, because the land patent cannot be changed, the land patent forever secures that Title to the land to the current landowners (from the land patent through the chain of title to the present). Thus, your imagined conclusion (“it appears an attempt at gaining a land patent on property that has a mortgage is punishable as well”) is unfounded and false. Again, the land patent has nothing to do with any mortgage; period.

Further, mortgages never have anything to do with the Title to Land. Remember, Land is distinct from property appurtenant to land. Thus, when a mortgage is secured with a promise to forfeit property if the mortgage is not paid in accord with its contracted terms, those terms stand against the property appurtenant to the land not and not against the land itself. Respectively, mortgages have nothing to do with whether the property–owner is also the landowner; thus, mortgages have nothing to do with the form of title (fee simple, allodial, feudal) under which the property appurtenant to the land is held. However, the nature elemental required by the definition of Allodial Title requires that there are no such encumbrances to the Title of either the land or the respective property appurtenant to that land. Thus, if a party had an Allodial Title to a parcel of Real Estate and they subsequently took out a loan, which they secured with the property appurtenant to that land, that act alone would terminate the allodial nature of their Title.

Where you are not a Team Law beneficiary (at this time), and where we have already provided sufficient technical details regarding this matter such that you should have be able discover that Team Law is worthy of your support, we are Charter bound to leave this subject at that point and must respectively inform you that we can support this topic further only through the benefits of Team Law beneficiary support.

However, we can say this regarding the court case you seem to be involved in. If that case is based upon any of the misconceived presuppositions you expressed in your post here, your chances of prevailing in that case might be severely jeopardized.

However, if your case is based upon actual unlawful acts (or provable fraud) that were perpetrated by the mortgage holders: and, if those unlawful acts were of such an egregious nature that they might disable the mortgage contract; and, if you present you case properly in a properly set court, then you may prevail. However, those were a lot of ifs. Nonetheless, we can only help Team Law beneficiaries learn how to handle such details in their respective cases; so, again, we could only address such details through Team Law beneficiary support services.

We hope this information is helpful to you.
Tell everybody about Team Law! :t^:
Team Law,

"In memory of our God, our faith, and freedom,
and of our spouses, our children, and our peace.
"


As with all Forum posts, comments made by Admin are:
copyrighted—all rights reserved; and, provided here for educational purposes only.


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