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New Patent Land Woner

The mystery of Land Patents unveiled.

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Ponce
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New Patent Land Woner

Postby Ponce » Tuesday October 16th, 2012 2:14 pm MDT

Hello everyone......my first post.

On the 8th of this month I obtained my Land Patent but now the tax man tells me that I still have to pay my tax anyway.

For many days and nights I have sitting here searching everything that I could think of and came up with the following.
In, Sargent vs. Herrick & Stevens, 221 US 404 & Northern P,R.Co. vs. Trail County, 115 US 600 the Supreme Court wrote:When congress has prescribed the conditions upon which portions of the public domain may be alienated (to convey, to transfer), and has provided that upon the fulfillment of the conditions the United States shall issue a patent to the purchaser, then such land is not taxable by a state.

The gave me this Oregon Supreme Court case about a mine land patent, claiment lost.....but:

"Since a mining claimant has merely a possessory interest in the location, the United States has PARAMOUNT TITLE in the land…" .......could someone please find out from where?

I am sure that I can win this case in court as long as:

The law alone must be the fountain from whence the authority is drawn; and there can be no other source. [I Scam. Ill. 344, 367 (1837)].....all that I need is an honest Judge in a Court Of Law.

Any comments on this will be very welcome and helpull.....Ponce

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Re: New Patent Land Woner

Postby Admin » Wednesday October 17th, 2012 1:08 pm MDT

:h: Ponce:
We are not certain that we understand what you meant by the following (taken you’re your opening statement):
Ponce wrote:On the 8th of this month I obtained my Land Patent…
Though your comment seemed simple enough on its face, our confusion comes from knowledge of historical elements, related to that statement, and from the reference you made with regard to that land patent and property taxes.
In the Land 101 article, Admin already wrote:Land patents do not limit the ability to contract. Wherefore, …
The same thing goes for property taxes, ‘Land Patents have nothing to do with property taxes.’

Historically, given the current state of our actual original jurisdiction government, since 1917, it has been impossible to secure a land patent from the original jurisdiction President of the United States of America; respectively, though you may have received a land patent lawfully issued by the Corp. U.S. President (from the time until a few years back), while Bill Clinton was the Corp. U.S. President, he signed an Executive Order that put the issuing of such land patents in a moratorium; which moratorium continues through our current time. Therefore, no such land patent could likely have been issued.

Further, given that the Land 101 article also clearly shows that the Land Patent, for a particular parcel of Land, is the Title to that Land; and, the fact that most people today acquire their rights to the Title to land via an instrument like a Warranty Deed, we expect that when, in your opening statement, you referred to ‘obtaining your Land Patent’ you were referring to something other than such an occasion; because, we imagine that had you bee referring to the rights so secured you would have written: “I obtained my Warranty Deed.“

However, where you addressed making an inquiry with “the tax man”, we imagine you are referring to something other than that.

Perhaps, you were referring to having just received a copy of the actual Land Patent for your parcel of Land from the Bureau of Land Management?

Yet, given the volume of predatory marketers and others [that do not understand Land Law, Land Rights and or the land patents related to the same fact that property taxes have nothing to do with land patents] available on the internet (and from other sources), that go about spreading myths regarding the application, use and effect of land patents, we expect you might still be referring to something other than any of the former options. However, without further information, we cannot merely guess what you were referring to with that opening statement.

Respectively, given that we did not understand your opening statement, we expected that we would not be able to respond to anything else in your inquiry (without first getting sufficient input from you to understanding that statement); however, as we read on it became apparent that you have also misunderstood some other elements of law as well (surmised from reading your inquiry following the case quote). Thus, though we cannot go much further into the matter without better understanding more of the details related to your situation, it seems like you are also either considering, or, are already involved in a court case regarding the matter and we can assure you that the level of support you would need to help you correct your misunderstood presuppositions and learn how to learn the law well enough to support yourself in such a case will most certainly be limited to the level of support we can only provide to Team Law beneficiaries.

Nonetheless, it remains imperative that you resolve those presuppositions; so, we hope you will clarify the details of your opening statement; so, we can, at least, help you resolve your basic understanding of land patent secured rights and that which follows.

We hope this information is helpful to you.
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Re: New Patent Land Woner

Postby Ponce » Wednesday October 17th, 2012 2:56 pm MDT

:h: Inserted by Admin:
Because several responses were posted in response to your inquiry before Admin could reply (which responses, regardless of their on-point and/or correct nature, did not address certain elements of your inquiry), Admin inserted several red notations directly into your inquiry in the hope that they may be helpful to you and to those that may read them with your inquiry.

Hello Team Law:.........thanks for your answer............but.

I am looking at my Land Patent??? which has been recorded and has a certificate.
:h: The red question marks (inserted above by Admin) were so inserted to question what you were referring to; because, that question was not resolved in response to Admin's last reply and still remains in question. Therefore, it is impossible for us to know whether you are actually inquiring after an actual land patent or something that you constructed in accord with your beliefs. However, in the leading sentence (which follows this comment) referring to your instrument (heading shown by you below) implies that said instrument is “The heading of my Land Patent”, which cannot be the heading of any actual Land Patent; therefore, we inserted the 3 question marks above and respectively contest your instrument next referenced.
The heading of my Land Patent says:

"CERTIFICATE OF ACCEPTANCE AND DECLARATION OF LAND PATENT"

Part of the declaration says:
From what follows, we cannot tell where your quote begins, or ends. However, we expect that you “Declaration” is just that, “your declaration” and as such we would question the limitations that may be related to the same. If that authority is yours alone and if, at best, that authority is limited to your actual authority as a landowner, it could not have any affect beyond the extents of your own domain and it could not possibly circumvent any existing authority that may have claim to that domain and or to your acquisition of the same; thus it would be almost nil of any effect.
When a lawfully qualified sovereign American individual has a claim the title is challenged
the court of competent original and exclusive jurisdiction is Common La??? Supreme Court
(Article 111)
Again we inserted the question marks because we do not understand what this is. Though we might imagine it was just a typographical error, we can make no such assumptions and accordingly must question your intent.
Any action against the patent by corporation state or their respective statutory, Legislative units (i.e., courts) would e an action at law which is outside the venue of jurisdiction of these article 1 courts. There is no Law issue contained herein which may be heard in any of the State courts (Article 1), nor can any court of equity/Admiralty/Military set aside, annul, or correct a Land Patent.

Therefore, said land remains unencumbered, free and clear, and without liens or lawfully attached in any way, and is hereby declared to be private land and private property, not subject to any commercial forums (e.g. U.C.C.) whatsoever.
We can come to now such conclusions from what you provided here; however, we can say that no such “Declaration” created by you can obviate any preexistent obligations you may have had with regard to the property appurtenant to your land or to your land itself; wherefore, we could not possibly come to the conclusion you came to in this reply regarding what you provided.
Remember that this document was posted in the bulleting board of the court house for 62 days and the "tax" man knew about it because I told them about it when they gave me the "card" of previous owner that went back to 1947.
Such a posting could not possibly provide any support for the claim you implied here; rather, it would instead stand as evidence to a court that you are attempting to dishonor any predetermined obligations you may have had and inspire the court to remove you from the property in accord with your prior agreements.
I am no lawyer but it sounds to me like what I have is a Land patent.......your opinion?
From what you provided, we see no evidence of a land patent; thus, we cannot say whether you have a land patent either in your possession or any right to the same.

Though, this seems to be a situation where you may have acquired a bunch of ideas from the ignorant promoters of mythical ideologies from the so called “Patriot Movement” rampantly available on the internet, etc.; though some of those ideologies may contain some truths and half-truths, they do not express the law of the land and they fail to even meet the test of logical persuasion; thus, such allegations and arguments are prone to fail (and even backfire) when brought into any court that follows law. Respectively, we remind you that we can only delve further into such matters with people that have Team Law beneficiary support.
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Re: New Patent Land Woner

Postby Zane » Thursday October 18th, 2012 10:37 pm MDT

Land can only be granted, not bought, sold or traded. Land has no monetary value. The property appurtenant to the land that sits on that land may have contractual taxes owed on it by the party that purchased it. The grant of the land may or may not be included within the Warranty Deed. Except by special act of Congress, land grants made patent can only be obtained by flesh and blood people (not artificial entities, like taxpayers) as is the case with railroad lands.

If the party that purchased the property borrowed the funds for the purchase from the FRB, they also accepted the obligation to pay those property taxes somewhere in the paperwork. No flesh and blood is going to accomplish those two things. If Corp US was involved in the purchase then the purchaser was an entity created by Corp US (see the points of Prerequisite Knowledge found in Myth 22).

That entity could grant the land to you if the grant of land was included in the conveyance section of the Warranty Deed. The obligation for the buyer to pay respective property taxes is usually included within the sale or transfer of ownership of that property. Respectively, if a party so agreed to pay the taxes then, they must pay them.

Though there appear to be 2 systems of government with 2 systems of law and 2 classes of citizen in this nation today (and, at least, since 1935), only one is the actual government (largely vacant of officials and unknown to most people) and the other is not government but is merely corporate in nature (most people think it is the government).
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children." (Hosea 4:6)

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Re: New Patent Land Woner

Postby Ponce » Friday October 19th, 2012 11:52 am MDT

Thanks for the info......it was my belief that when I obtained my Land Patent tha I had the same rights as the original reciever and that nothing could change the rules by which she recieved it.

In, Wilcox v Jackson 13 Peter, US 498, the Supreme Court wrote:The patent alone passes land from the United States to the grantee and nothing passes a perfect tittle to the public land but a patent.

The Treaty (Contract) Law cannot be interfered with, as the Supreme Court has held that 'Treaties' are the 'supreme law of the land'. See also Article 6, Sec.2 of the U.S. Constitution. The Treaty is declared the will of the People of the United States and shall be superior to the Constitution and the laws of if any individual State. [76]
In, Stone v United States, 2 Wall (67 US) 765 (1865), the Supreme Court wrote:A patent is the highest evidence of title, and is conclusive against the government and all claiming under junior patents or titles, until it is set aside or annulled by some judicial.

So, what changed all this where the state can now make me pay property tax?

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Re: New Patent Land Woner

Postby SimplyThinkDreams » Saturday October 20th, 2012 9:23 am MDT

Ponce,
In order to understand your situation properly, you must approach the situation using the Standard for Review. Judging from your posts here, it seems that you do not understand the parties involved regarding your situation, where it is most likely that the party who actually possesses the property being taxed is a Trust created by the Social Security Administration. To understand what that Trust is and how it was created, I suggest reading Contracts, Trusts, and the Corporation Sole and at least the points of Prerequisite Knowledge provided in Myth 22. It would also be of great benefit for you to run the mechanical test described in The Seduction to see who actually owns the property you are referring to in your posts.

Further, property taxes are the result of a contract regarding the property appurtenant to the Land (see Land 101. Land Patents do not limit your ability to enter into such contracts. Once you have entered such an agreement, you are required to abide by the terms set forth in said agreement.

I hope this helps!

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Re: New Patent Land Woner

Postby Admin » Saturday October 20th, 2012 1:37 pm MDT

:h: Ponce:
First, we hope you have noticed and reviewed the inserts Admin added direct within your next to the last post in this topical thread; those comments were so inserted in the hope of helping you begin to see the errors apparent to those that actually understand land law and are hoping to help you here.

Second, this is our response to your last post: Nothing.
That is to say, nothing changed the effect of those Supreme Court rulings you so cited. We expect that you simply misunderstood the same. Remember, as referenced in our Land 101 article, there is a distinctive difference between “Land” and the “property appurtenant to land”. One (Land) is the intangible domain itself while the other (property appurtenant to the land) is the tangible property that sits within that domain. And though the Land itself (the domain) remains intangible, unassailable and impossible to sell (or be otherwise bound), the property appurtenant to the land can be bound by contractual obligations such as: mortgages and property taxes. Thus, though those contractual obligations have no bearing upon the land itself they most certainly are compelling upon your agreements regarding said appurtenant property.

Wherefore, again, the answer to your question is, nothing. It appears like you simply failed to understand land law and or how it applies to what you read.

Today, altogether too many people are hoodwinked into believing the ideas of predatory marketers and ignorant promoters alike as their mythical ideologies are made available through the internet, etc. Though some of those promoters are merely ignorant of the facts others have more maleficent intentions moving from making buck regardless of the effect of their effort to hell bent on causing civil war and destroying our nation. Regardless of any of that, when we see people fall prey to such things we become concerned and hope to help the people so deceived to discover the hope that remains for them in actually learning how to learn the law—which thing is elemental to Team Law’s purpose—we help people learn how to learn the law from their own firsthand study of the law itself and from its source.

Nonetheless, we remind you the situation you described is based on specific technical details that would require reviewing of actual documents you used in official records and that either were or you intend to use in court proceedings; wherefore, you must understand that to delve further into such matters with us would require Team Law beneficiary support; thus, we can address such details further only after you become a Team Law beneficiary.

We also believe, based upon what you already implied, you might consider being very careful if you intend attempting to use such arguments in court—if a court perceived that you were intending to use such to perpetrate a fraud upon the court; they could charge you with that crime and you would risk a lengthy prison term. It is at least apparent that you may have some serious misunderstandings of land law. Thus, you may wisely want to consider what the others wrote in response to your posts on this topical thread and becoming a Team Law beneficiary.

We hope this information is helpful to you.
Tell everybody about Team Law! :t^:
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and of our spouses, our children, and our peace.
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As with all Forum posts, comments made by Admin are:
copyrighted—all rights reserved; and, provided here for educational purposes only.

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Re: New Patent Land Woner

Postby Ponce » Saturday October 20th, 2012 5:19 pm MDT

OK, Money talks and poopoo walks…so, I am going to talk.....I'll give you guys $1,000 to do all that is needed to be done for me go be able to obtain my tax free "private property" once I have the same in my hands I'll give you another $1,000…but…If you fail in getting my tax free private property then you will return the innitial $1,000…so put up or shhhhhhhhhh, send a contract to my email address…thank you…Ponce

No need to post anything else here because I won't be returning, unless I have what I want.

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Re: New Patent Land Woner

Postby Admin » Monday October 22nd, 2012 10:07 am MDT

:h: Ponce:
Normally your last post would have simply be removed by an Forum Moderator for its failure to comply with our Forum Rules; however, in this case our Trustee wanted Admin to respond for the benefit of anyone else that may have failed to either read our Forum’s Rules or to have otherwise failed to recognize Team Law’s purpose from all of the other places where it is so clearly posted. We also wanted to reply because the basis of your premise from the beginning was not something you got from Team Law; rather, the basis for your inquiry came from your desire to accomplish something you apparently got from other sources (predatory marketers, etc.) who promote things we clearly show are not correct. Given the facts that:
  1. Team Law is an educational foundation, whose purpose is to help people learn how to learn the law (with its history and language) from their own firsthand study and application of the law itself from its source;
  2. Respectively, Team Law neither tells our students what to do nor do we do your work for you;
  3. Our Land 101 article clearly provides resolutions to your misconceptions regarding: the Title to land and the property appurtenant to land, land patents, mortgages, property taxes and land law; and,
  4. Throughout this topical thread, both Admin and the others that have responded to your posts, did their best to help you begin to learn how you could rediscover how to resolve your presupposed situation—apparently to no avail.
We find it quite interesting that you make such a proposal (as found in your last post) here. Surely, you must know your offer is bogus. As noted in all of Admin’s responses to your posted inquiries, none of your posts presented an inquiry that we could understand. Though it was clear that you were asking something about land patents and their relation to property taxes, it was also clear that you were working with: some paperwork that you did [which had nothing to do with anything Team Law does or with which Team Law is involved] and related court and/or other proceedings that were spawned from what you did. Respectively, we tried to help you awaken to the necessity of your learning the law properly as it is related to such matters; we also directed you to the fact that for us to help you further, you would have to be a Team Law beneficiary. However, even as a Team Law beneficiary all we can do is help you learn how to learn the law correctly.

Your last response makes it quite clear that you would like us to do your work for you; yet, even in that we still have no idea what it is that you would like to do. Of course, your challenge makes it clear that you want someone to do something for you that will help you acquire private property tax free; but, even with that (if you could find someone willing to do that for you), when they were done doing whatever they did, you would still remain ignorant of how to do it for yourself.

Again, that is only one of the reasons why we don’t do your work for you. When anyone does your work for you, you learn nothing; and, nothing is accomplished to change the difficult position our nation and its people are in today. Our purpose of helping people learn how to learn the law is centered on the fact that it is the only way our people can save our nation—we must all learn how to learn the law and they we must apply it.

Further, if there was any merit to your offer, the people we know that privately possess that level of knowledge would never do such a work for another party for such a ridiculously low price. Even retaining an attorney, with such knowledge, could not be accomplished at a price less than $25,000; and, would likely cost you more than ten times that amount. Of course, you can rest assured that no attorney possessing such knowledge (if they were willing to so act for you at a price), would teach you anything about what they did to accomplish the task.

Thus, why would you imagine that we, who cannot be bought at any price, would fall for such a frivolous challenge? As you noted at the end of your last post, you need not respond to that question—it was rhetorical.

As a parting note: you claimed that you would not be returning, “unless I have what I want.” However, we have no idea what you want. It seems like you want knowledge without paying its requisite cost. And, if you did not understand what that cost is, the cost of knowledge is personal firsthand study of the law, its history and language from its source. Of course, that is what Team Law does; we help people acquire knowledge by helping them learn how to learn from just such a firsthand study.

Personally, I have always wanted to play the guitar. However, though that desire is a passionate desire, the passion has not yet become sufficient to drive me to both study and practice well enough to develop the skill. And, until it does, I will not likely learn how to make music from that instrument.

So it is with the study of law. Until you are ready to learn how to learn and ready to have us help you with that process, you will not likely become a Team Law beneficiary. So, until you are so prepared, we bid you well and hope you will at least read back through this topical thread with the intent of learning from the hints we already provided you about the process.

As a final note, I personally own, and know quite a few other people that also own, land and none of us are aware of anyone that has property taxes on any land. By the way, that statement was not presented to, in any way, flaunt the fact before you. Rather, it was presented merely as another hint, given with the hopeful intent of inspiring you to study and learn more from the law itself—because, the knowledge possessed by those that have such land and property is not available on the internet at any cost. It can only be acquired in the exact same way as one learns to play the guitar—through proper study and application.

Team Law can help; but, we will never do your work for you.

We wish you well ; and,
We hope this information is helpful to you.
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As with all Forum posts, comments made by Admin are:
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Re: New Patent Land Woner

Postby Ponce » Monday October 22nd, 2012 4:23 pm MDT

OK, I'll buy that.
Today I wrote to the City Attorney and to the US Attorney General…all that I asked of them was as to when the rules changed that a Patent Land owner had to pay a tax on the land.
Ponce

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Re: New Patent Land Woner

Postby Admin » Monday October 22nd, 2012 7:29 pm MDT

:h: Ponce:
You noted that you sent letters to both the City Attorney and the US Attorney to ask them when the rules changed; as if, landowners have to pay property taxes on land—however, landowners in this country have never paid taxes on land. Somehow, you keep missing that point. Nothing has changed with that regard. The difficulty you seem to be continuing with is your failure to acknowledge the definite distinction between “Land” and the “property appurtenant to land.”

Once you grasp that distinction, the next thing you will have to understand is the fact that land patent secured rights do not interfere with your God given inherent right to contract; which is why (as noted in the Land 101 article) land patents have nothing to do with mortgages or property taxes.

Respectively, your letters to those attorneys only get you labeled by those offices as a “nut job protestor that is likely violating the law”; that is to say, it does nothing for either your position or your interest in preserving your rights.

We hope this information is helpful to you.
Tell everybody about Team Law! :t^:
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As with all Forum posts, comments made by Admin are:
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