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How to use Land Patent during litigation

The mystery of Land Patents unveiled.

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Chris78p
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How to use Land Patent during litigation

Postby Chris78p » Sunday August 16th, 2009 12:13 pm MDT

We have recently secured and recorded a certified Land Patent on our property. We are being sued by the owner of the subdivision for violation of deed restrictions which we were not aware of and are represented by an attorney. Our attorney is aware of our obtaining a Land Patent but has asked us to show him some law cases or some references to cases that have proven that a case such as ours has won in court. As far as he knows there are none. He is not very familiar with the use of Land Patents in court. Could someone give me some references that would apply in a violation of deed restrictions case in Michigan? Also if we would need to present the Land Patent in court on our own what would we say? Thanks in advance for any help.

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Re: How to use Land Patent during litigation

Postby Jus » Sunday August 16th, 2009 8:30 pm MDT

Chris78p,
First, you are confusing “land” with “property”.
Second, without knowing what exactly your case involves it will be difficult for anyone to make reasonable comments related to your questions. But it is likely that at least some of your questions would be answered by a careful reading of the lead article titled Land 101 and in utilizing the “search this forum” tool at the top of this forum page.
If you have read those already you may need to re-familiarize yourself again with the basics… you will discover that land and property are different. If an heir or assign to land has legal and lawful evidence of the right to a particular piece of land, that right to the land cannot be questioned. Property ownership and control on the other hand, is a function of the nature of the parties involved and their individual contracts, which can vary.
Did the property purchase contract you signed contain terms and conditions that you agreed to, then failed to abide by, because you did not read the contract with enough attention to the details? Unless there is fraud or some other element that voids a contract, when you sign a contract it is assumed that you read and understood the agreement.
Restrictions and covenants are common in property sales agreements, but usually the restrictions relate to the contracted property, which is appurtenant to the land, not necessarily the land itself.
Make use of this forum. Learn the fundamentals, then if you still have questions contact Admin in a private message.

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Re: How to use Land Patent during litigation

Postby Chris78p » Sunday August 16th, 2009 9:18 pm MDT

Jus:
The property purchase contract we signed did not contain terms and conditions obligating us to any restrictions placed on the land by the subdivision owner. Nor did our Title Insurance Commitment make any mention or reference to deed restrictions placed on the land. We did not purchase the land from the original owner nor directly from the subdivision owner but through a relocation company which gave us a stack of disclaimers claiming no knowledge of the land we purchased. In the lawsuit the subdivision owner said that the deed restrictions were recorded at the Register of Deeds on the entire subdivision as a whole (80 acres) and that they go with the land. These restrictions are so strict that they actually take away our right to make choices about what we can do on our land . Thank you for your response.

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Re: How to use Land Patent during litigation

Postby Jus » Monday August 17th, 2009 2:58 pm MDT

Your reply makes it appear as if you have not looked at either Land 101, any of the related posts, or used the search tool.
You are probably pressed for time and in a hurry to get "help."
Regardless, the time you take to review what was first offered may save you time and money in the long run.

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Re: How to use Land Patent during litigation

Postby Admin » Wednesday August 19th, 2009 1:10 pm MDT

:h: Chris78p:
The responses Jus provided gave you some direction that should be quite helpful even though Jus did not delve directly into the details of your inquiry. Still, your following his suggestions should be a significant aid to your discovering solutions to your situation.
If you have read much on our Open Forum system, you will have discovered that on our Open Forum we can only provide limited support dealing with general questions that might apply to anyone. In your case, your situation is one needing specific support at a level restricted to us for Team Law beneficiaries only; thus, even if you had provided specific details regarding your situation we would be limited from providing direct support unless you were a Team Law beneficiary and then that support could only be provided either on our private Beneficiary Forum or with direct telephone support.
Still, there are a few elements you asked about that may fall into that category of general questions and might help you in your pursuit:
  1. Virtually all occupied land in the United States of America is secured by a land patent. In fact, the land patent is the actual Title to the Land and the subsequent transfers using various types of deeds etc. merely add color to that Title, which color can properly show the chain of Title from the Land Patent to the present. That does not change the fact that the Land Patent is the Title and the Deed is a “Color of Title” instrument necessary to prove your right to the Title to the Land in question. Thus, having secured a copy of the Title and recording it will not change the fact that the Land Patent was already the controlling document of record dealing with that particular parcel of land’s ownership.
  2. An elemental key to any lawsuit dealing with contractual liability will be whether or not you knew or should have know what the terms of the contract were. Thus, the prosecutor’s job will be to prove that you either knew or should have known the terms of the alleged agreement. Thus, if they can prove that they will likely win; however, if you can show that you did not and could not have known, given the conditions, you may prevail.
  3. Again, the land patent is simply the Title to the Land. Attempting to use a land patent as the basis for arguing against a case such as you related to will most likely prove fruitless; because the Land Patent does not likely have anything to do with the nature of such a case.
  4. As Jus stated you have not provided sufficient information regarding your case for us to respond further about its merits; and, even if you had we would be limited to responding to Team Law beneficiaries only with our response to such an inquiry.
  5. Even if everything else were proper for providing respective cases as you requested, we could not because you are not a Team Law beneficiary. Beyond that, if you were a Team Law beneficiary, we would more likely still not provide such cases for you; rather, we would more likely help you learn how to find those cases on your own.
The bottom line:
Our purpose is not to do your research for you. In the end, such a service would do nothing good for you. The reason you have the problem is you do not know how to do such research for yourself or how to litigate your cause. Thus, you are relegated to hiring an attorney and hoping that attorney will have sufficient litigation experience and working knowledge with your case to prevail in court.
That is not a good position to be in—there is no way to win with such a dilemma—even if you win in court you still have to pay for the attorney and you do not know if the attorney is doing what they do correctly as you proceed through the case.
That is exactly why a service like ours is so important; the only way we will win our nation back is if the people awaken to the necessity for their learning the law and properly applying it. That is exactly what we do, we help our beneficiaries learn how to educate themselves with the Law, its language and our history; so, they will never have to rely on someone else standing up to save our country or themselves. The solution not only to your situation but also to saving our country is such a self-education as Team Law can help you provide.

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Re: How to use Land Patent during litigation

Postby Chris78p » Friday August 21st, 2009 8:58 am MDT

Thank you for your reply. I have read every page on your site including the one that Jus suggested and also all the questions and answers in the forum. My husband and I came to the conclusion that a Land Patent would not be a beneficial argument in this particular case on our own. We do thank you for the information you provided in your reply, we feel that we have a very competant attorney.

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Re: How to use Land Patent during litigation

Postby Admin » Friday August 21st, 2009 12:09 pm MDT

:h: Chris78p:
We provide this slight correction to your last comment hoping to clarify the point:
A Land Patent is not an “argument”; rather, a Land Patent is the Title to Land.
Therefore, as you discovered, the only proper place for using a Land Patent in a court case is as evidence of the extent of your Title to Land.

Team Law always appreciates people discovering answers on their own. That is exactly what we hope to help people learn to do. More to the point, the intent of our service is to help people not only learn how to do their own research but also to help them learn how to know they are correct when they learn their answers. It is not enough to believe you are correct you have to actually be correct, know how to know you are correct when you are and know how to prove you point in court to the satisfaction of the judge or jury. The only way that happens is when people do their own research, secure the proper evidence and accordingly, learn how to present that in court.

When it comes to the presentation part, a competent attorney can be a great help; but, feeling an attorney is good isn’t enough. It remains necessary for people to do their own study and know the law well enough to know whether their attorney is proceeding forward correctly and to have sufficient knowledge and skill to fire the attorney if they will not proceed correctly and still have the knowledge necessary to proceed without the attorney when necessary. Some people think that is too much, but reality provides the necessity; and, self-education provides the only path to the solution.

You seem to be doing your homework and that is great. In fact, that is where it all starts; so, you are to be commended for that. We hope you are right about the attorney and we hope that does not cost you too much. Most importantly, we hope you continue with your personal study of the law, with its language and history; because that is the only way we can win our nation back—by learning the law and applying it.

Team Law can help with that.

We hope this information is helpful to you.
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Re: How to use Land Patent during litigation

Postby Moonbeam2009 » Friday November 6th, 2009 2:16 pm MST

Dear Team Law:
I am Canadian and since you stated that United States and Canada have similar rules of law regarding Land Patents and Abstracts I have decided to forward this question to you.

First, perhaps, I should give you a bit of background information that I have found. My family has come across information that our ancestors (only grandparents, great uncles and aunts etc), received various types of land grants from the Crown. Original Settlers, Homestead, Hudson Bay Company, Railroad Grants, Half-Breed Grants and Metis Scrip Land Grants. We have had a few different lawyers working on our behalf in this matter, however, it proved fruitless due to the fact that did not know enough about Land Law and Land Patents to proceed. They basically ended up at the District Registrars Office and because other people were on the land in question, gave up without checking legal chain of title to the Patent holder. We have only a few of the abstracts for the land in question (expensive) ten dollars a page, to work with right now. There are so many irregularities and inconsistent changes of ownership that I am again confused as to what part of this is legal and which is not. For instance, most journals and documents transferring or conveying the land does not start with the original Patent holder. The Original Patents or cerified copies of the same do not accompany the abstract in any of the cases. There are dates that are not in order, e.g. there is a record of an instrument dated 1879, followed by 1908, then 1975 and then 1881. There are instruments reported on abstracts that the documentation does not appear and vice-versa. There are many irregularities besides these. I realize that these are all part of "colors of Title". My question is, what constitutes a perfect chain of Title? In other words, what types of documents should legally accompany these abstracts to say that a current or previous deed or title holder has legal ownership of the patent lands that once belonged to my family? Also, I believe you mentioned in Law 101 that the land could not be transferred or sold. Does that mean we are potentially Landlords to the said Land? I have many more questions, however, I will await a response for these questions first. Thank you so much for this web site. Canada is too afraid to list any such rights and laws for the patent holders. What are they trying to hide? I'm with you on the theme of getting our Countries back as the Magna Carta intended.

Moonbeam2009

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Re: How to use Land Patent during litigation

Postby Moonbeam2009 » Monday November 9th, 2009 5:17 pm MST

Dear Team Law:
I posted a message a week ago and still have not received a response. Did I do something incorrectly?

Moonbeam2009

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Re: How to use Land Patent during litigation

Postby FreeManOnLand » Monday November 9th, 2009 11:58 pm MST

I would be patient considering that recently there was an election in two more States in the Original jurisdiction Republic. TeamLaw tracks those elections and now are probably preparing to update the situation for reseating the republic. However, one thing I am sure about is Admin will answer when possible. No worries! :wink:

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Dan Mcdonough
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Re: How to use Land Patent during litigation

Postby Dan Mcdonough » Wednesday November 11th, 2009 10:45 am MST

Strikeout text emphasis inserted by Admin.[hr][/hr]Hello Moonbeam2009. I don't have all the answers, as no one does, but I can offer you some understanding.
Moonbeam2009 wrote:What constitutes a perfect chain of Title? In other words, what types of documents should legally accompany these abstracts to say that a current or previous deed or title holder has legal ownership of the patent lands?
You refer to land as if it can be owned, it can not. The proper way to relate such a thing would be to say ...has legal assignment of the patented land. A proper perfected chain of title to the land would include certified copies from the public record of all of the land transfers from the original grant made patent, to the present heirs and/or assigns.
Moonbeam2009 wrote:Also, I believe you mentioned in Law 101 that the land could not be transferred or sold. Does that mean we are potentially Landlords to the said Land?
Land can be transferred, whether it be by; grant made patent, by inheritance, or by assignment. Land cannot be bought or sold. Property appurtenant to the land on the other hand can be contracted, bought, and sold, etc... It does help with understanding to know the difference between land, and property when reviewing such situations. In court the only thing a perfected chain of title from a land patent to present will show is evidence of who has the right of dominion over the land. A perfected chain of title will not help anyone to get out of contracts such as mortgages and the like that deal with property appurtenant to the land.

The Way of Kings­™ can help with foundational instruments to secure your own sovereign foundation in law, which should work in Canada just as well as the USA. The Way of Kings­™ can also nominate you to become a Team Law beneficiary. Which would be necessary for Team Laws' help in understanding the specifics personal matters.

I can say that the nature of Canada's Social Insurance numbers have similarities with the nature of Corp. U.S. Social Security numbers.
"Don't quit"
Respectfully,
Dan McDonough

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Re: How to use Land Patent during litigation

Postby Admin » Thursday November 12th, 2009 12:29 pm MST

:h: Moonbeam2009, FreeManOnLand & Dan Mcdonough:
We first thank FreeManOnLand for responding to your concern over not seeing our response more quickly. He was accurate in his presentation both regarding the many things that can cause such a delay and regarding the fact that we always make sure that all inquiries are reasonably responded to whether the response comes from Admin or from any other source. We also make sure that those responses are either correct or we will correct the responses to assure that by the end of each topical thread on our Open Forum system, all of the information provided and verified by Admin will be the most correct responses available at the time of the topical thread’s final post. Therefore, you may always rest assured in that with “No worries!”

There are a few variances between property titles in Canada vs. the same in the United States of America. Primarily those variances come from the English Crown’s control over Canada for such a comparatively long time; meaning, so long as the Crown holds Canada as part of the British Empire the landownership shall remain with the Crown. Thus, the private property owners of the property appurtenant to the land are tenants on the Crown’s land and are accordingly subject (hence the term, “royal subjects”) to the Crown and respectively are required to pay tribute to the Crown. Of course, since the Crown granted Canada autonomy many think the Royal rule of the monarchy has ended, and, in fact, the lifestyle there may make it seem like that tenancy has ended. However, Canada’s form of government rule is well recognized as a “Constitutional Monarchy”; which means the Queen is still the Queen and the autonomy she granted to the government did not change the fact that the Queen still owns all of the Land (the Domain); thus, her royal authority over Canada continues to this day.

Now dealing with Land title:
The Title to the land is the Land Patent and though we can help Team Law beneficiaries understand the fullness of the effects of a land patent we are restricted by our Charter from revealing more than we have already revealed either on our Land 101 article or elsewhere on Team Law’s websites, etc. Therefore, to go any further than that this thread would have to continue to the Beneficiary Forum.

We can answer your question with, each and every one of the documents (either originals or certified copies), that changed or directed the ownership of the land from the patent to the present, is necessary to substantiate a perfect Title. Thus it appears those you had working on the project were on the right track. However you can run into problems if a party does not pass the property on while still under the feudal control of the Crown—because the property appurtenant to the land would simply revert to the Crown in absence of a living tenant owning the property appurtenant to the Land, which thing does not happen in the United States of America—where there is no Crown.

When doing title searches related to abstracts; you go to the recorder and get certified copies of any documents referenced on the abstract.

We think Dan Mcdonough was giving your next question a whirl when he provided the portion of his response that we struck out. You referred to the fact that Land cannot be transferred, bought, sold or traded. We expect Dan had understood that to mean that Land cannot be owned; however, we struck that part of his response out because Land can certainly be owned even though Land itself is not physically tangible. The fact that Land can be owned should be clear when considering the difference between Feudal Title and Allodial Title. Feudal Title describes the nature of landownership in kingdoms like Great Britain, where the King owns all of the Land (the domain; or, the intangible space). It is called “feudal” because there is in essence a “feud” or contest established between the Land owner and the owner of the property appurtenant to the land. That feud is usually resolved by terms of a contract; which makes the owner of the property appurtenant to the land “subject” to the Land owner (the owner of the domain). Allodial Title describes landownership where one or more parties own both the land and the property appurtenant to it.

Dan was correct in the balance he presented regarding Land and we give special focus to the following:
Dan Mcdonough wrote:It does help with understanding to know the difference between land and property appurtenant to it when reviewing such situations.

Again, we can only address further elements of landownership and its properties with Team Law beneficiaries so for more on that topic this topical thread would have to continue on the Beneficiary Forum.

Our responses to your remaining points follow:
Landlord status is defined by a combination between the Title to the Land and any tenancy contracts that may exist.

We don’t expect the Canadian government is trying to hide anything by not delving into such matters; because all such matters are well defined by their nature when you understand it. It is not up to any government to tell you what your rights are. Regardless of the government form, if you have to ask them to know what your rights are, then by definition you are tenants that don’t have any you don’t understand.

Rights are things of existence. They are not created by governments; rather, governments are created in accord with those existent rights. The United States Supreme Court has been well quoted to say: “If you don’t know what your rights are you don’t have any.”

Accordingly, the Magna Charta intended nothing. It did not have the capacity to “intend”; however, the Lords that compelled King John to sign it did intend to use it to compel the king to honor their inherent royal rights as inherent heirs apparent to the throne. Thus, they put him in a situation where they held him at the edge of a sword and threatened him to sign the Charter or they would get a new king. It was only too clear to him that if he did not make the mark on the document he would lose his head. The question is, did he sign?

The answer to that question is found in the laws regarding signatures. A signature is not the trail of ink on a page left by the movement of the pen in hand; rather, it is the knowing willing consensual agreement to the terms of the instrument that causes the hand to move the pen that constitutes signature.

Therefore, we ask, “Did King John sign the Magna Charta?”
The answer is clearly exemplified by the sword compelling the mark. There was obviously no knowing willing consent. It is hard to imagine in the history of that event; one must wonder why those very men went to the extent of forcing that mark but did not finish the act by taking John’s life. None of them were so fortunate; for John did, thereafter, take each of their lives for what they had done. As we recall, within three month they were all dead and King John’s order.

Respectively the Magna Charta did not become law in England; though its words have had a historical effect. Still, those words recognize no rights to the common people, they deal only with the rights of those that may in some way rise to the throne In the future.

In a country like the United States of America, the Magna Charta was quite influential considering that our laws are based on the fact that every man or woman of competent age and ability is sovereign—to such the rights defined in the Magna Charta make some sense.

We hope this information is helpful to you.
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Re: How to use Land Patent during litigation

Postby Mham50 » Sunday January 3rd, 2010 7:05 pm MST

Chris:
Have your attorney demand the association bring forth the wet ink signed contract that makes you liable for the charges being made. Any undisclosed restrictions makes the document null and void due to lack of full disclosure.

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Re: How to use Land Patent during litigation

Postby Admin » Monday January 4th, 2010 10:39 am MST

:h: Mham50:
We expect your response to Chris was made to address the original inquiry in this topical thread as adjusted through Chris78p’s final post in this topical thread. Given that original inquiry was made regarding a court case that was actively proceeding last year, it may no longer have relevance now.

However, we are responding to your comment on the subject matter assuming the general nature of such real estate agreements due to Chris78p’s comments made in that final post.

The subdivision (plaintiff) in question charged the defendants (Chris78p) with violation of posted deed restrictions.
Chris78p wrote:In the lawsuit the subdivision owner said that the deed restrictions were recorded at the Register of Deeds on the entire subdivision as a whole (80 acres) and that they go with the land.
Which, is quite common. Accordingly, you are saying Chris78p should have their attorney compel the wet ink signed contract that makes them liable; however, that will be on the Deed, not the contract. The real estate Deed will reference both the Seller’s grant of the Land and the Seller’s bargain for, sale and conveyance of the property appurtenant to that Land. The contract for sale will usually only reference the same as it relates to any respective deeds. However, all parties to the relationship are expected to know (they know or should know) the Deeds can only convey what the Seller/Grantor has to convey. Accordingly, when you offer to purchase real estate you are expected to know the laws related to such purchases. That includes the fact that the buyer is required to know the nature of the property being sold. The final opportunity for confirming that knowledge is at the closing table when the Deed is provided from the Seller/Grantor to the Buyer/Grantee. At that time you would see the Deed and its reference to the real estate described on the Deed. When you track that Deed’s reference to the real estate description it will take you right to the “deed restrictions” of record referenced above by the plaintiff. Accordingly, the pen and ink signature you are asking about is the buyer’s signature on the real estate purchase offer combined with your acceptance of the Deed for the real estate so described.

The bottom line: such recorded “deed restrictions” are disclosed by the public record and (exclusive of other potential errors or omissions) their respective obligations are valid and binding.

We hope this information is helpful to you.
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