Land Patents New York

[Isothermal]

Prior to 1967, the New York constitution had a provision for allodial title to land. It was eliminated, with the argument that it was obvious that land can have allodial title, so that provision of the constitution was superfluous.

I am wondering if anyone has first hand knowledge of a flesh and blood man gaining allodial title or land patent in New York, since 1967.

From my research, schools (universities) and some churches may have allodial title of their property, although I have not seen first hand the evidence of that.

The specific area of New York which I have researched is a western part of the state, where the land was fist claimed by Massachusetts, given to the US to help pay the revolutionary war debt, and then subsequently sold commercially. Tracing the land back to the first land grant has proven to be straight forward.

Understanding the patent process in New York has been more elusive.

[Admin]

Isothermal:
We have to agree with the legislators that determined that it is obvious that an allodial title can be had and setting a law to that regard is superfluous and unnecessary.

Allodial title merely means that the owner of the domain (Land; see Land 101) and the owner of the property appurtenant to the domain is one and the same person.

The opposite of an “allodial title” is a “feudal title”; which means that the owner of the domain is a different person than the owner of the property appurtenant to the domain.

In the paragraphs above we chose to use the word “domain” in place of the usual word so used, “land”; because, when we use the word “land” people so often misunderstand the term thinking that we are referring to the statutory term, “vacant land”. We are not.

‘Land’ is simply an area of three dimensional space, its position being defined by natural or imaginary points located by reference to the earth’s surface. ‘Land’ is not the fixed contents of that space… . Land is immoveable, as distinct from chattels, which are moveable; it is also, in its legal significance, indestructible. The contents of the space may be physically severed, destroyed or consumed, but the space itself, and so the ‘land’, remains immutable.

Thus, it should be obvious that all land held in a “fee simple” Title is allodial. Accordingly, in accord with the laws of New York the Union State, virtually all of the titles held in the State are held by an allodial title.

Accordingly, we expect that, with a knowledge of law and knowing what you are looking at, the records of land ownership in the State will prove that virtually all of the land in New York is held by its various owners in allodial title.

New York’s strip map even shows the names and boundaries of most of the original land patents as they were then issued and became the basis of most of the other boundaries in the State.

We hope this information is helpful to you.
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[Isothermal]

Thanks for your reply. I had already read the Land 101 posting.

However, the question remains: Has anyone successfully secured a land patent / allodial title in New York, since 1967?

Said differently, I have without any real problem documented and collected certified copies of deeds and relevant documents. Understanding the process, specific to New York, is the issue.

So I'm wondering if there is even one post-1967, non-university and non-church, example out there?

[Admin]

Isothermal:
We already correctly answered that inquiry.
You obviously missed our direct response; so, we will restate that response as follows:

Virtually every single real estate transaction in New York today secures the ownership with an Allodial Title.
In other words: Virtually every single real estate transaction in New York today secures the ownership of both the Land and to the property appurtenant to the land to the Buyer/Grantee.

It is done the same today as it has been done since before the formation of the State. Virtually the only exception to that fact takes place whenever there is an unresolved underlying forced sale (foreclosure sale or tax sale) of the property appurtenant to the land. Such forced sales separate the title to the property appurtenant to the land from the Title to the land itself, which results in a Feudal Title instead of an Allodial Title.

If that was not clear enough, try this:

Has anyone successfully secured a land patent / allodial title in New York, since 1967?

The answer to your question is: “Yes.”
Of course, that answer then has the follow-up question: “Who?”
That is the answer we already provided you in our first response by showing:

Both today and throughout the history of the State, virtually every landowner in New York (for that matter, throughout the United States of America) has successfully secured ownership of their land and the property appurtenant to it by an allodial title, which Title is the Land Patent under which the land was originally granted to the parties named on it. The documents that prove that fact are the landowner’s Deed with the “chain of title” from that Deed to the original Land Patent for that land.

Your next question was:

I'm wondering if there is even one post-1967, non-university and non-church, example out there?

And, that question was also answered by our previous response. That answer is also: “Yes”; for the exact same reasons.

Accordingly, if you do not now understand our answer to your inquiry, then you will have to be a Team Law beneficiary for us to help you learn how to learn the law so that you can understand it and apply it.

Regardless of that your understanding (or lack of the same) will not change the fact that virtually all land titles in the United States of America are allodial.

The term in law that you will regularly see that confirms that fact is, “fee simple title”; which is the exact same thing as, “allodial title”.

To delve into this matter further will require access to the Beneficiary Forum.

We hope this information is helpful to you.
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[Isothermal]

My understanding is that fee simple or fee simple absolute falls short of allodial title, in that fee simple provides for taxation, police power, escheat and eminent domain, as well as applying encumbrances from a deed.

Simply stated, it appears that allodial title is converted to fee simple when the land is municipally incorporated, resulting in restrictions and regulation.

Furthermore, there does not seem to be the same process available to one in New York, which is implemented in other states, supporting the establishment of land patents or letters of patent.

My question remains: Has anyone, since 1967, obtained allodial title to land in New York state, and if known, what was to process to do so?

[Admin]

Isothermal:
Ok, so the first problem we have here is a difference of opinion regarding the meaning of words and phrases. But, that aside if we were to use your definitions of the words our answers to your questions remain the same with a slight bit of qualification.

First of all, most people never acquire title to their land or to the property appurtenant to it. The fact is, they typically have no interest in it at all. If you look at the documents they use to acquire real estate, those documents will prove that the party acquiring the real estate is a taxpayer identified by its social security number. A review of the seven points of “Prerequisite Knowledge” listed in Myth 22 will show such taxpayers are merely Corp. U.S. agency trusts holding all that the trust acquires for its beneficiary—Corp. U.S.

Thus, considering the fact that your question is focused on people acquiring Allodial title; that body of people that have secured Title to their land is a significantly smaller group than anyone might want to imagine. Still, we are aware of some people that have (even recently). Of course, our relating that brings on the next question; which we will not answer, that being: “Who?”

One of Team Law’s elemental policies is respecting privacy, so we will never reveal that kind of information. In fact, we believe doing so would provide no benefit to anyone.

The bottom line: Team Law helps people learn how to learn the law; including but not limited to, the proper way of acquiring land and of property appurtenant to it. But that is a subject we have to reserve to our Team Law beneficiary support services.

We can say this though, to secure the Title to the land and to the property appurtenant to the land (using your definition of Allodial title) free and clear of all encumbrances you simply have to make sure that all contracts and agreements are fulfilled and that in the process you do not encumber the property with any new obligations.

However, most people have no idea how to do that; so, if they do not learn the law and apply it they will not likely figure it out.

We know of several people in New York that have followed that process and have respectively secured perfect title both to the Land and to the property appurtenant to the land.

There are a couple of problems with your original question:

1. Though the answer to your question is, “Yes” (even using your definition of “allodial”), we do not expect that answer will be sufficient for you. Having received that answer we expect you will now want to either know who has done it (which question we are not privileged to answer) or you will want to know how that is to be done; which would require beneficiary support, which is not possible except with beneficiary support; and then, only so long as the path does not take us to private matters (which would need to be handled personally, via beneficiary telephone services).
2. Your original question presupposes that Allodial title is preferable over all other forms of title; which it is [b]not.[/background] To delve into that matter would also require Team Law beneficiary support; however, we will give you a hint towards that end. Still, we could only show a Team Law beneficiary what form of title is the most secure form of title; which brings us to the same dilemma—you would have to be a Team Law beneficiary to receive the level of support necessary to take this matter any further.

Thus, we hope you will either take up the matter as a Team Law beneficiary or be satisfied knowing that we told you that there are people in New York, the State, that have (even since 1967) secured allodial titles, even by your definition. And, all of the land in New York (the State) is secured by land patents.

We hope this information is helpful to you.
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